St. Patricks Day

[iHaunt]

Right on, Mike! I/myself and family are mixed Irish-Italain-English-French-Scottish-Spanish and so on... My father's side.... Irish and English. My mother's side... English and French. Great-great-great families from the Old World.

[Pumpkin_Man]

You have a lot to celebrate, iHaunt. Most of us do originate from European ancestors, and IMHO that heritage is every bit as worthy of celebration as St. Patricks Day, Martin Luthor King Day, Washington's Birthday and all the rest.

The framers of our Constitution were English, some of our greatest aly's during the American Revolution and the War of 1812 were French, and one of the greatest leaders of our country in the 20th Century was John F. Kenedy, the very first Irish Catholic President of the United States. It was he, who psssed the Civil Rights Amentment of 1963, and it was he who got America on the road to sending a man to the moon and returning him safetly to the Earth.

Mike

[iHaunt]

Yes, that's true.... my grandpa always knows anything more than I do.

[Wicker Man]

We always celebrate that day here in Scotland. We have corn beef, green cabbage and potatoes. I'm mixed irish/scottish. We do go see Saint Patty's parade here every year.

[Pumpkin_Man]

WickerMan, they have a St. Patrick's Day parede on the South side of Chicago every year. I actualy went to it one year, but I almost got my head bashed in by a bunch of drunken idiots who thought I was a teacher at Brother Rice high school. They were as drunk as all get-out, so I d idn't stand around to argue. Luckily there was a police car near by. He kept the ' riff raff ' away from me while I got into my car and went home.

I'll never go to that dunken fiasko again. The news paper reported the next morning, that there was f e c e s and u r i n e all over the place, garbage strewn from one end of the block to the other, housed broken into and all kinds of things stolen from varioius people. They stopped having it about 2 years ago.

Why, oh why does St. Patrick's Day have to be so associated and cememted to getting drunk???!!!

Mike

[Wicker Man]

Well all english/scottish/irish people love to drink a lot!

[Pumpkin_Man]

The French are known for their wine, the Germans are known for all the different verietes of beer made there. I don't think that Irish, English and Scottish people are any more prone to alcoholism then any other nationality on Earth. I have one bottle of beer with my Corned Beef & Cabbage every time I have my St. Patrick's Dainner, and that's it, other then Holy Communion. That's all the drinking I do.

The idiots I encountered were ABUSING a drug, which is what alcohol is. The also wanted to give a 'nuckle sanwich' because they thought I was a teacher at a school they didn't like. Last year, on New Years Eve, two truck drivers got drunk, and got into an argument over who had the "baddest" truck. One was hauling automobiles the other gasoline. They thought it would be really "cool," (and they were both drunk as all get-out) to have an 18 wheeler drag race down the main street of my homs town. Luckily all that flamable liquid didn't go up, and there was no major problem, but they did tie up traffice for hours, and the police did haul them off to jail. They will probably both lose their CDLs on the head of this.

So no, I don't think getting drunk is cool, and I also don't think getting drunk is an excuse for obnoxious behaviour.

Mike

[Wicker Man]

The French are known for their wine, the Germans are known for all the different verietes of beer made there. I don't think that Irish, English and Scottish people are any more prone to alcoholism then any other nationality on Earth. I have one bottle of beer with my Corned Beef & Cabbage every time I have my St. Patrick's Dainner, and that's it, other then Holy Communion. That's all the drinking I do.

The idiots I encountered were ABUSING a drug, which is what alcohol is. The also wanted to give a 'nuckle sanwich' because they thought I was a teacher at a school they didn't like. Last year, on New Years Eve, two truck drivers got drunk, and got into an argument over who had the "baddest" truck. One was hauling automobiles the other gasoline. They thought it would be really "cool," (and they were both drunk as all get-out) to have an 18 wheeler drag race down the main street of my homs town. Luckily all that flamable liquid didn't go up, and there was no major problem, but they did tie up traffice for hours, and the police did haul them off to jail. They will probably both lose their CDLs on the head of this.

So no, I don't think getting drunk is cool, and I also don't think getting drunk is an excuse for obnoxious behaviour.

Mike

Yes, thats true... I've seen lots of european people drink so much all the time!

[Pumpkin_Man]

WickerMan, alcohol has been around since the dawn of prehistory. Every culture throughout history has formented fruits and vegitables to make some sort of a liquor drink. Beer was invented by the ancient Egyptians, according to most sources. Others may beg to differ. Wine is talked about in the Bible, and most likely was invented in the mediterainian region, all though that also cannot be substantiated.

The point is, all peopls of the world have alcohol in their culture. Alcoholism is a part of life in all nations to one degree or another. Why is it then wen some one says "Saint Patrick's Day," the first thought to pop into anyone's head is "drink." Saint Patrick's Day is the day that I celebrate my Irish heritage. I celebrate my ancestors who were left behing in Ireland, and those first generation ancestors who bravely came here to improve the lot of our family. Saint Patrick's day is a day of celebrating pride in the Irish heritage, of which the Catholic faith is a very important park. It's NOT supposed to be a 'get drunk and act like an irresponsible idiot' day. At least it's not that for me.

We Irish Americans have much to celebrate. Both collectively and individualy, we beat many of the odds that were against us. We went from an opressed servant nation to powerful families like the Kenedies. Many Irish Catholics who came here to America have achieved a lot, and THAT is what I celebrate on Saint Patrick's Day. That, and our heritage in the "old country."

I ranted on a bit too long for one post so I'll end it here. Thanks for reading and putting up with it. I just get upset, some times, when a celebration of my ethnicity is over blown by the myth that all Irish are alcoholics, and that Saint Patrick's Day is a day for hanging out at the pub, or bar, or what ever you call it.

Mike

[Murfreesboro]

I think most ancient cultures developed fermented drinks because the alcoholic drinks were actually safer than the water they had, which was often contaminated with sewage, etc.

I think the Irish perhaps got the reputation for excessive drinking during the centuries when they were held down by unjust English laws. I have read about how the English came to Ireland, confiscated their land, and made it illegal for the natives to own any land in what had been their own country. They ended up having to rent (at excessive prices) what had been theirs. It was demoralizing and made it impossible for people to get ahead. When you create a situation like that for people, many of them will turn to drink in despair. Something like that happened in the American South in the late 19th century, after the Civil War. (I don't mean that the US government literally took land away from people, but the social order was destroyed, and people in the region were defeated. Many did lose their land because they could no longer afford to pay taxes on it.) There was a huge problem with alcoholism in the South during the late 19th & early 20th centuries.

[Pumpkin56]

I have Irish heritage (among a host of others) and when I actually do celebrate St. Patrick's Day, I typically head to a pub with friends. It's never been about "the Irish are drunks, so let's drink!" It's more like, "let's wear green and just have fun"

I do the same with Mardi Gras and Oktoberfest. But again it's just a time to have fun. I never just think "Cajuns are hooligans, so I'm going to act like a drunk skank to celebrate" or "beer to the Germans is like air to everyone else, so bottoms up!" It's all about getting together with some pals and having a good time.

[NeverMore]

I do the same with Mardi Gras and Oktoberfest. But again it's just a time to have fun. I never just think "Cajuns are hooligans, so I'm going to act like a drunk skank to celebrate" or "beer to the Germans is like air to everyone else, so bottoms up!" It's all about getting together with some pals and having a good time.

Don't forget Cinco de Mayo. Big drinking holiday around these parts.

[Pumpkin56]

I do the same with Mardi Gras and Oktoberfest. But again it's just a time to have fun. I never just think "Cajuns are hooligans, so I'm going to act like a drunk skank to celebrate" or "beer to the Germans is like air to everyone else, so bottoms up!" It's all about getting together with some pals and having a good time.

Don't forget Cinco de Mayo. Big drinking holiday around these parts.

Oh same here. But then again, I'll use any reason to eat Mexican food

[Murfreesboro]

That's true, Pumpkin. Drinking is associated with social activities, holidays and parties, in most cultures. There's nothing wrong with it as long as people don't do it to excess.

Muslims are forbidden by their religion to drink alcohol. I wonder what their festivals are like? I don't even know of any, except I think they have a big party at the end of Ramadan, their month-long fast. Not sure what their customs are, though.

Today is New Year's Eve, and tonight many people will go out to drink and party. I was thinking just yesterday that I suppose New Year's Eve has evolved as the "adult" counterpart to Christmas, which is so child-centered in our culture. It's sort of like, we partied with the kids last weekend, so let's party with the grown-ups tonight.

[Pumpkin_Man]

That's what I do when it comes to celebrating any holiday, be it St. Patty's day or the 4th of July. But, for me, observing St. Patrick's Day is more then just having fun, all though fun is definately part of it. St. Patrick's Day is a day I remember my ancestors, and my heritage. It's like Christmas. Yes, I do have dinner with my brothers and sisters, yes I do get gifts from some of them, and yes, I do celebrate and have fun, but it's also a very deep religious observance. I also have tons of fun on the 4th of July, but ther is also a deeper significance there, too. That's the birth of the very nation that welcomed my ancestors with opened arms....(well not exactly, but many of us were finaly able to 'get ahead' when we came to America.)

As for alcoholism, it was a HUGE problem in my old neighborhood. A lot of kids use to hang out on 112th and Drake and get crocked every night, and they usualy got their liquor through illegal deals made with various shady characters, or they simply stole it from their own parent's liquor cabenet. And the parents were just as bad if not worse.

Mike